Need some Help with guns...No idea anymore

[Fritz]

Now this is interesting a DP G4 only $299 new seems pretty good better then the a-5 less then the Phenom...but the reliability I can't really find any reviews on it

[BillyBob]

I loved my Mini but it was my backup so I never used it too much. If you keep all the parts and board settings stock they are reliable and easy to fix if anything does go wrong. When doing maintenance just follow the directions in the manual exactly how they're written. There's a couple small things that you can mess up if you take it apart improperly, but the manual plainly tells you how to do it. If you find a good used Mini they usually go for $175-225, add a tank, hopper, and mask and you'd be looking at about the $400 ballpark.

[Killer]

Here's a BT TM7 which is a Mini in a milsim body. Less than a day left but worth considering.
http://cgi.ebay.com/BT-TM7-freak-bar...item27b36a5e3b

[Raptor Jezus]

Originally Posted by orracle71

Mags being inefficient or efficient depends alot on what you compare them to. If you're comparing them to something like a shoebox shocker or stock vintage matrix then they're amazing, but they're gas hogs compared to alot of things like Cockers, Timmys, Egos, etc...

My $.02 would be to get a cheap reliable marker and spend the extra money on paint. Alot of people get a Tippmann 98 custom or something similar then they use it for a year or two and once they've got a better idea of what they want they bump up to something nicer.

As far as electro markers go I'd suggest a Bob Long Protege, they get amazing efficiency (2000+ shots on a 68/4500), tons of them were produced so they're easy to find, they can shoot faster than you pull the trigger, and they are super simple to maintain.

I've got a Bob Long Vice which is basically the same thing but with a couple of nicer parts and generally all you have to do after a weekend of play is to slide out the bolt, put 2-3 drops of oil on the orings, unscrew and slide out the ram, wipe it clean, put a little dow 55 grease on it and put it back together. Five min of work tops.

A Mag is plenty cheap and IMO the most reliable marker out there. As for efficient, I know it's not going to be anywhere near what my AKA is, but I know it's always going to work. I have never been able to say that about any other marker I've ever owned, and many others.

While I like Minis, and think they are good markers, they are only good markers when they work. I've seen multiple things about minis kinda going out of people, so I'd say reliability could be an issue with those.

[BillyBob]

With Minis, as long as you get one with a version 3 or 4 poppet you're okay. The early Minis had some issues with the bolt and the poppet but once they figured those out there were no reliability issues. Just keep everything stock except maybe the barrel and you're set. And honestly the stock Mini barrel is pretty damn good, especially considering the price bracket that the Mini is in. I know a lot of people have thought that their Minis solenoid has gone bad but usually it just takes a simple "reset" and it's good to go.

The DP G4 is supposed to be a pretty decent gun. The G3 had some issues but they fixed those with the G3 S.E. or whatever it was. They're about the lightest gun out there and are of a very simple design.

[303chainsaw303]

Originally Posted by Fritz

Now this is interesting a DP G4 only $299 new seems pretty good better then the a-5 less then the Phenom...but the reliability I can't really find any reviews on it

etek ego 06 or up

[burns130]

I have many friends who shoot Planet Eclipse products and they are very good. The Etek and the Ego are poppets and I prefer spoolies. P.E. does have the Geo which is a spoolie. BTW...the Etek is simply an Etek even though it looks like an Ego (vice being an Etek Ego).

Burns

[Titan]

@ Fritz
I've got the g3, and while the g4 is the new improved version, they are similar enough that I can tell you a few things.

Weight=
The g3/g4 is one of the lightest and smallest markers made. Its even lighter than the mini(although just barely).

Efficiency=
The stock g3 gets 1200+/- shots off a 68/4500 tank, which is about the same as a tippmann. The g4 does a little better, but I'm not sure how much(maybe 1300/1400 shots)

Reliability=
While the g4 requires more maintainance than a tippmann, it is much easier to work on.
If you're the type of person who likes to strip their gun and clean/lube them often, get a g4. Unscrew the back cap, wipe of the bolt, and relube the orings. It literally takes seconds. One thing though, they are finicky on lube. Too little and you burn through orings. Too much and you'll get bolt stick. Also, a low battery can make them act crazy, so replace them often.
If you're the type of person who wants to throw their gun in the garage and never mess with it, get a tippmann or a mag. They will shoot slower, and be heavier, but hell or high water, they will shoot.


@everyone else
Which is better?
Bob Long Vice vs Aka Viking

[BillyBob]

Originally Posted by Titan

@everyone else
Which is better?
Bob Long Vice vs Aka Viking

That depends entirely on what your definition of better is. The Vice is going to be lighter than ANY Viking, it doesn't matter how much you've milled off the Viking. With the proper boards you can have just a many modes, ROFs, and other features that you could want. They'll both be very efficient. They're both made in the U.S. The Vice is a more "modern" marker and parts and service are much easier to get for it. The only true advantages that I see the Viking having are it's consistency and the fact that there aren't exactly a lot of them out there, and of the ones that are out there, no two Vikings will really be the same.

[Fritz]

Yeah I think I'm set on the G4 I've asked around and it seems to not have many bad reviews

[custar]

Originally Posted by BillyBob

That depends entirely on what your definition of better is. The Vice is going to be lighter than ANY Viking, it doesn't matter how much you've milled off the Viking. With the proper boards you can have just a many modes, ROFs, and other features that you could want. They'll both be very efficient. They're both made in the U.S. The Vice is a more "modern" marker and parts and service are much easier to get for it. The only true advantages that I see the Viking having are it's consistency and the fact that there aren't exactly a lot of them out there, and of the ones that are out there, no two Vikings will really be the same.

I have never shot a Vice, so I won't comment on that. BB, you need to try out my Featherlight or my Bonebrake. I think you will be surprised at the weight (or more precisely the lack thereof). Also, an Evil M properly milled will be lighter still (one lower tube rather than two).

Routine maintenance of a Viking is 3 - 4 drops of SATO in the ASA and dry fire it ~40 times after a day of play. I have some that I have literally done nothing more than this ever. No grease anywhere, no removing bolts, etc. If a Viking is shooting fewer than 2,000 off a 68/45, either your paint/barrel match is way off or you need to adjust your dwell. For those into the whole closed bolt/open bolt stuff (cough *mostpeople* cough) an Excalibur is available. BB is right that parts will be less widely available, but a quick visit to the AKA subforum on PBN will set you up with about anything you need.

One drawback may be price. You can find unmilled 2003 Vikings for $325.00 - $350.00 and unmilled 04 Vikings for $375.00 - $400.00 but a featherlight will probably run $500.00+ for an 03 and $50.00 to $100.00 more for an 04. More highly cosmetic mills such as Highlanders and Crusaders may run just a tad more but have the looks to justify it.

Here is a Bonebrake that belongs to someone I know:



Here is a blind Featherlight that now belongs to SquirrelCommander:



custar

[BillyBob]

I've shot Vikings and Vices, never played any game with either though. I'm not saying you can't get a Viking down to a weight comparable to more "modern" markers but even a Vahalla with all of its "diet" milling is heavier than a Vice. BlueDragon from GR has a Vahalla and while nice, it's definitely still heavier than a Vice. And you probably could get an Evil M down to about the same weight as a Vice but you'll spend almost twice as much on building/buying such an Evil M as you would just buying a used Vice. I was just trying to answer a question as honestly as I could about the 2 markers that Titan asked about. And I'm not suprised you haven't had to grease a Viking. If my memory serves me properly AKA suggests using only sythetic air tool oil (SATO) on every part of their markers that requires lube. The Dow55 that Bob Long guns require can be a little more difficult to find but Grainger offers a tube of it for about $20 that would last most people 10 years or more.

[custar]

Originally Posted by BillyBob

I've shot Vikings and Vices, never played any game with either though. I'm not saying you can't get a Viking down to a weight comparable to more "modern" markers but even a Vahalla with all of its "diet" milling is heavier than a Vice. BlueDragon from GR has a Vahalla and while nice, it's definitely still heavier than a Vice. And you probably could get an Evil M down to about the same weight as a Vice but you'll spend almost twice as much on building/buying such an Evil M as you would just buying a used Vice. I was just trying to answer a question as honestly as I could about the 2 markers that Titan asked about. And I'm not suprised you haven't had to grease a Viking. If my memory serves me properly AKA suggests using only sythetic air tool oil (SATO) on every part of their markers that requires lube. The Dow55 that Bob Long guns require can be a little more difficult to find but Grainger offers a tube of it for about $20 that would last most people 10 years or more.

No problems. I agree with most if not all of what you posted.

custar

[Raptor Jezus]

Originally Posted by BillyBob

I've shot Vikings and Vices, never played any game with either though. I'm not saying you can't get a Viking down to a weight comparable to more "modern" markers but even a Vahalla with all of its "diet" milling is heavier than a Vice. BlueDragon from GR has a Vahalla and while nice, it's definitely still heavier than a Vice. And you probably could get an Evil M down to about the same weight as a Vice but you'll spend almost twice as much on building/buying such an Evil M as you would just buying a used Vice. I was just trying to answer a question as honestly as I could about the 2 markers that Titan asked about. And I'm not suprised you haven't had to grease a Viking. If my memory serves me properly AKA suggests using only sythetic air tool oil (SATO) on every part of their markers that requires lube. The Dow55 that Bob Long guns require can be a little more difficult to find but Grainger offers a tube of it for about $20 that would last most people 10 years or more.

Ya, AKA actually cared about the quality of it's markers, unlike Smart Parts, so they did a good job of producing products with such tight tolerances that they do not require grease. Heck, the grease would probably slow an AKA down.

[BillyBob]

I like AKA products (I've owned/own a few of their regs) but I wouldn't call myself a huge fan, but I still hate SP. But in SP's defense their guns require grease because of the spool valve system. I can't think of any spool valve guns that don't require grease. And with poppet valved guns grease is typically only required in regulators.